ZenGardner Comes Clean...Or Does He? (7 Viewers)

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Vickie

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I noticed this comment from Zen on his recent article, Now and Zen: To Whom It May Concern. Sounds like he is closing his site down.

View attachment 726
More information has come to light about the cult. One of the ex-members has come forward and said that the cult was formed for the pleasure of the elite around the world (people with money and/or power). They could do as they pleased with children and it stayed within the confines of the brainwashed cult members. This ex-member was born in the cult and was able to break free in her twenties.

Ferguson was running the show in Brazil and he's not looking too much like the victim he portrays himself to be. I'm sure there is more information yet to come out. My guess is that he's not wanting any other information coming to light so he's getting out of the public view.
 
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Stargazer

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More information has come to light about the cult. One of the ex-members has come forward and said that the cult was formed for the pleasure of the elite around the world (people with money and/or power). They could do as they pleased with children and it stayed within the confines of the brainwashed cult members. This ex-member was born in the cult and was able to break free in her twenties.

Ferguson was running the show in Brazil and he's not looking too much like the victim he portrays himself to be. I'm sure there is more information yet to come out. My guess is he's not wanting any other information coming to light so he's getting out of the public view.
What was the source of this new info, Vickie?
 
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What was the source of this new info, Vickie?
At the bottom of this link there is a new comment from a person that said they were at the Tony Robbins seminar and the girl in the video I posted above had much more to say during the seminar. In fact she talked for two hours giving these details. They cut much of the details out of the video. I did a quick search and found a few people on other boards saying the same. Just do a few searches and you will find a whole lot of details have come out.

https://veilofreality.com/2016/08/19/an-open-letter-to-don-ferguson-a-k-a-zen-gardner/

Here's some more light reading that details how people in power knew exactly what was going on:

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0075a.html
 
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Stargazer

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At the bottom of this link there is a new comment from a person that said they were at the Tony Robbins seminar and the girl in the video I posted above had much more to say during the seminar. In fact she talked for two hours giving these details. They cut much of the details out of the video. I did a quick search and found a few people on other boards saying the same. Just do a few searches and you will find a whole lot of details have come out.

https://veilofreality.com/2016/08/19/an-open-letter-to-don-ferguson-a-k-a-zen-gardner/

Here's some more light reading that details how people in power knew exactly what was going on:

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0075a.html
Great...thanks!
 
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Stargazer

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I just finished listening to Will Berlinghof's channeling of "Cosmic Awareness" on the Zen Gardner (and, apparently now, Simon Parkes) SNAFU. I found "Awareness'"and Will's takes to be very insightful and on point.

They talk about the importance of maintaining integrity and impeccability in our own "gardens" and the value of being a neutral observer in situations such as these. At the end, Will makes the very wise point that not only do we not always know the details of soul contracts, etc., we only slow our own soul growth down when we judge others. He also reminds us that karma and accountability are always in play--and that ALL deeds will have their consequences at some point, even if those responsible are not held accountable in this life.

I would add that the only way to stop an endless cycle of abuse and/or revenge is to somehow step off that circular track to find forgiveness and self-healing.

For those who may be interested in listening, here's the link:

 
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I just finished listening to Will Berlinghof's channeling of "Cosmic Awareness" on the Zen Gardner (and, apparently now, Simon Parkes) SNAFU. I found "Awareness'"and Will's takes to be very insightful and on point.

They talk about the importance of maintaining integrity and impeccability in our own "gardens" and the value of being a neutral observer in situations such as these. At the end, Will makes the very wise point that not only do we not always know the details of soul contracts, etc., we only slow our own soul growth down when we judge others. He also reminds us that karma and accountability are always in play--and that ALL deeds will have their consequences at some point, even if those responsible are not held accountable in this life.

I would add that the only way to stop an endless cycle of abuse and/or revenge is to somehow step off that circular track to find forgiveness and self-healing.

For those who may be interested in listening, here's the link:

Thanks for that Stargazer. I will listen to that this weekend. I am not sure that I agree that "we only slow our own soul growth down when we judge others" as many souls want to experience judgement here on Earth, both as judger and judged. Therefore they are adding to their experience, not slowing it down at all.

I googled the Zen Gardner issue last week to see if anything had changed. What struck me was repeated requests that Max Igan comment on the Zen Gardner affair. Why?

I wonder if we have a couple of generations of people who are so used to being told what to think, what opinions to have, who to like, what it is fashionable to believe that they struggle to form their own opinions. Schools, governments, film stars, mainstream media, politicians all conspire to tell people what to do and what to believe. As long as people depend on others to form their opinions and beliefs then they will always be let down.

Now, where are all those new smileys?
 

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Thanks for that Stargazer. I will listen to that this weekend. I am not sure that I agree that "we only slow our own soul growth down when we judge others" as many souls want to experience judgement here on Earth, both as judger and judged. Therefore they are adding to their experience, not slowing it down at all.
Good point, Pod...hadn't thought of it that way!

I guess the "slowness" becomes a factor when we make a habit of judgment in life after life and can't seem to find our way off that karmic track. I know it's been hard for me to jump off that train... |-)
 
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I just finished listening to Will Berlinghof's channeling of "Cosmic Awareness" on the Zen Gardner (and, apparently now, Simon Parkes) SNAFU. I found "Awareness'"and Will's takes to be very insightful and on point.

They talk about the importance of maintaining integrity and impeccability in our own "gardens" and the value of being a neutral observer in situations such as these. At the end, Will makes the very wise point that not only do we not always know the details of soul contracts, etc., we only slow our own soul growth down when we judge others. He also reminds us that karma and accountability are always in play--and that ALL deeds will have their consequences at some point, even if those responsible are not held accountable in this life.

I would add that the only way to stop an endless cycle of abuse and/or revenge is to somehow step off that circular track to find forgiveness and self-healing.

For those who may be interested in listening, here's the link:

If we simply turn our heads about atrocities like this and say, "I forgive you, you came in with a soul contract to be a pedophile" is almost saying it's okay to perform these horrible acts and that its okay to ruin a child's life before they even get a chance to grow up. Lets not forget the child in all this and how this changes their lives. The child, who's life is forever changed, is the only one who gets to decide on forgiveness in my opinion. I do not forgive a pedophile and thank goodness it's not my place to do that.
 
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Pod

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If we simply turn our heads about atrocities like this and say, "I forgive you, you came in with a soul contract to be a pedophile" is almost saying it's okay to perform these horrible acts and that its okay to ruin a child's life before they even get a chance to grow up. Lets not forget the child in all this and how this changes their lives. The child, who's life is forever changed, is the only one who gets to decide on forgiveness in my opinion. I do not forgive a pedophile and thank goodness it's not my place to do that.
Vickie, nobody can tell you what you should feel or think or what your experience of life should be. It is your life and your experience and you are sovereign in your life. I think there are too many new age gurus out there, masquerading as all sorts and imposing their opinions, beliefs and ideals on people. I know what fits for me and you know what fits for you and we do not need anyone's permission. :tswg
 
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Vickie, nobody can tell you what you should feel or think or what your experience of life should be. It is your life and your experience and you are sovereign in your life. I think there are too many new age gurus out there, masquerading as all sorts and imposing their opinions, beliefs and ideals on people. I know what fits for me and you know what fits for you and we do not need anyone's permission. :tswg
Absolutely! I don't listen to new age gurus either.
 
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If we simply turn our heads about atrocities like this and say, "I forgive you, you came in with a soul contract to be a pedophile" is almost saying it's okay to perform these horrible acts and that its okay to ruin a child's life before they even get a chance to grow up. Lets not forget the child in all this and how this changes their lives. The child, who's life is forever changed, is the only one who gets to decide on forgiveness in my opinion. I do not forgive a pedophile and thank goodness it's not my place to do that.
I understand and agree that kind of behavior is reprehensible (as are so many other things people do to one another). Fortunately, we still have a choice in how we react to it and how we allow it to affect us. If we're in a position to do something to prevent something like that from happening, then great! We can step forward to do so. Those are obviously the times when we can be most helpful.

Most of the time however, we're not there and we have to view the situation far after the fact, as in these cases. Since we can't really do anything physical to help then, the main question is, "How do we choose to react to situations like this?"

Do we choose to harbor hate, anger, or resentment about situations we can't control?
Do we choose to bring vengeance, punishment, or other judgment to bear against those responsible?
If so, who gets to judge? Who gets to punish? (and yes, I understand we have a legal system to address those kinds of issues--and there's nothing at all wrong with that).
Do we choose to become victims ourselves by letting these acts traumatize us as well?

On the other side of the coin:

Do we choose instead to extend Love, Understanding, and Compassion to the victim(s)?
Do we choose to extend Love, Understanding, and Compassion to those responsible? (And yes, I'll agree this one's a toughie!)
Do we choose to live our lives (as Will says) with impeccability, teaching our children, our children's children, and even our neighbors by our example that these kinds of abuses don't have to happen?
Do we choose to use this situation as a catalyst for action, whereby we try to create positive change (or at least balance)?

And finally,

Might we choose to be a neutral observer and view this experience as a learning point, or lesson?
Might we choose to use this situation as a catalyst to further reinforce our moral or spiritual choice not to inflict harm on others?​

I'm not saying that any one of these responses is right or wrong, or even that these are the only choices. We can pick one response, any combination of responses, or perhaps even discover something entirely new that we feel is perfect for ourselves and others. That's something that each of us must ultimately decide for him/herself.

As one who was mildly abused growing up, I've experienced more than enough abuse, fear, anger, hate, and all the rest of those "darker" emotions. I've no intention of experiencing more of them. While these situations were difficult to live through (and still are to face), I'm beginning to understand that they were catalysts and opportunities for growth--and they can be for all of us.

I've learned that, for me, the answer is to detach myself from this endless cycle of abuse, revenge, abuse, revenge, abuse, revenge. I feel as if I've seen it and experienced it for lifetime after lifetime. My intention is, through Forgiveness, Understanding, and Love, that I'll finally be able to break that cycle in my own family and soul family. If I don't abuse my son, there's a good chance he won't abuse his, and so on...for countless generations. Perhaps that's something others can do as well.

I do deeply feel one thing...if enough of us can stop these downward cycles in our own lives, perhaps we'll have a future where fewer (or even no more at all!) children will have to go through what these have gone through. And that, I think, is a wonderful thing!
 
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Stargazer

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For what it's worth, my intention wasn't to "tell anyone how they should feel" or impose any opinions, beliefs, or ideals on anyone. I apologize if anything I've said has been taken that way.

I simply felt that this was a comfortable environment where everyone could discuss things in a rational manner--and I'd hoped that I could offer some alternative ways of looking at the situation that might expand others' viewpoints a bit. That's all.

I realize this is a sensitive subject and I obviously haven't done the best job approaching it.

Please accept my humble apologies.

:oops:
 
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Pod

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For what it's worth, my intention wasn't to "tell anyone how they should feel" or impose any opinions, beliefs, or ideals on anyone. I apologize if anything I've said has been taken that way.

I simply felt that this was a comfortable environment where everyone could discuss things in a rational manner--and I'd hoped that I could offer some alternative ways of looking at the situation that might expand others' viewpoints a bit. That's all.

I realize this is a sensitive subject and I obviously haven't done the best job approaching it.

Please accept my humble apologies.

:oops:
Oh bless you Stargazer....you are such a sweet soul and I know you like peace. I do not feel that you are imposing your beliefs on anyone, you like to smooth troubled waters and you do not like to see people suffer so you offer what you feel is the best of yourself. Your intentions are truly noble. For me no apology needed!

:hbounce
 

Stargazer

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Oh bless you Stargazer....you are such a sweet soul and I know you like peace. I do not feel that you are imposing your beliefs on anyone, you like to smooth troubled waters and you do not like to see people suffer so you offer what you feel is the best of yourself. Your intentions are truly noble. For me no apology needed!

:hbounce
Thank you, Pod! [[[HUG]]] <3 <3 <3
 

Snowmelt

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If we simply turn our heads about atrocities like this and say, "I forgive you, you came in with a soul contract to be a pedophile" is almost saying it's okay to perform these horrible acts and that its okay to ruin a child's life before they even get a chance to grow up. Lets not forget the child in all this and how this changes their lives. The child, who's life is forever changed, is the only one who gets to decide on forgiveness in my opinion. I do not forgive a pedophile and thank goodness it's not my place to do that.
Thank you for your perspective, Vickie. Due to my situation being the mother, I have forgiven a pedophile, and I have been judged for that. For the very act of forgiveness, I have been judged. But I have lived with the situation for 10 years. Within that time, the finding out about it and the coming to terms with it, and the tremendous trauma it did cause to my beautiful girl, that we are still living with, daily. A part of me is repulsed, and a part of me does see his higher being. As I have identified him with DRACO energy, I have even wondered if that is my original soul format - because I have loved him as a husband and have looked at every facet of his personality and seen the damage (too late). Even so, I have decided that that kind of speculation is irrelevant. I wrote down all the positives and negatives he brought into our lives, then I forgave him, then I burned the list. I try not to itemise those things in my mind now, as it is only giving it more life.

My daughter continues to improve, with many slippages backwards in her emotional health, but it is a slow, painstaking rebuilding of her self esteem and confidence, and her learning that each must take responsibility for their actions (which he certainly didn't).
 

Snowmelt

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I understand and agree that kind of behavior is reprehensible (as are so many other things people do to one another). Fortunately, we still have a choice in how we react to it and how we allow it to affect us. If we're in a position to do something to prevent something like that from happening, then great! We can step forward to do so. Those are obviously the times when we can be most helpful.

Most of the time however, we're not there and we have to view the situation far after the fact, as in these cases. Since we can't really do anything physical to help then, the main question is, "How do we choose to react to situations like this?"

Do we choose to harbor hate, anger, or resentment about situations we can't control?
Do we choose to bring vengeance, punishment, or other judgment to bear against those responsible?
If so, who gets to judge? Who gets to punish? (and yes, I understand we have a legal system to address those kinds of issues--and there's nothing at all wrong with that).
Do we choose to become victims ourselves by letting these acts traumatize us as well?

On the other side of the coin:

Do we choose instead to extend Love, Understanding, and Compassion to the victim(s)?
Do we choose to extend Love, Understanding, and Compassion to those responsible? (And yes, I'll agree this one's a toughie!)
Do we choose to live our lives (as Will says) with impeccability, teaching our children, our children's children, and even our neighbors by our example that these kinds of abuses don't have to happen?
Do we choose to use this situation as a catalyst for action, whereby we try to create positive change (or at least balance)?

And finally,

Might we choose to be a neutral observer and view this experience as a learning point, or lesson?
Might we choose to use this situation as a catalyst to further reinforce our moral or spiritual choice not to inflict harm on others?​

I'm not saying that any one of these responses is right or wrong, or even that these are the only choices. We can pick one response, any combination of responses, or perhaps even find discover something entirely new that we feel is perfect for ourselves and others. That's something that each of us must ultimately decide for him/herself.

As one who was mildly abused growing up, I've experienced more than enough abuse, fear, anger, hate, and all the rest of those "darker" emotions. I've no intention of experiencing more of them. While these situations were difficult to live through (and still are to face), I'm beginning to understand that they were catalysts and opportunities for growth--and they can be for all of us.

I've learned that, for me, the answer is to detach myself from this endless cycle of abuse, revenge, abuse, revenge, abuse, revenge. I feel as if I've seen it and experienced it for lifetime after lifetime. My intention is, through Forgiveness, Understanding, and Love, that I'll finally be able to break that cycle in my own family and soul family. If I don't abuse my son, there's a good chance he won't abuse his, and so on...for countless generations. Perhaps that's something others can do as well.

I do deeply feel one thing...if enough of us can stop these downward cycles in our own lives, perhaps we'll have a future where fewer (or even no more at all!) children will have to go through what these have gone through. And that, I think, is a wonderful thing!
Stargazer, I fully agree that it is a generational dysfunction. It is a mental contamination that is handed down through greed of desire; ambition (in the case of satanic ritual); lack of responsibility for actions; desire to hurt as they have been hurt; and total insensitivity (total lack of empathy, unable to feel the emotions of their victim reflected back to them, almost like they've had their wings of love violently removed, shorn off, and no love can arise within their vessel for that lifetime), and there is horrible suppression and denial of the truth for the rest of their lives, taking their whole energy which otherwise would be available for healing and love, but instead used to hold the lid down on their self-suppressed truth. It is a life wrecker and a soul kicker.

But anyone in the vicinity of this (in the scope of experience) has the option to flick the coin on its head.
 

Stargazer

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My daughter continues to improve, with many slippages backwards in her emotional health, but it is a slow, painstaking rebuilding of her self esteem and confidence, and her learning that each must take responsibility for their actions (which he certainly didn't).
HM, you and your daughter have such amazing strength and resilience! I'm so grateful that you've found the grace to begin healing from your experience.

Sending you both much love and appreciation for all the progress the two of you will make together. You are both an inspiration.
 
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For what it's worth, my intention wasn't to "tell anyone how they should feel" or impose any opinions, beliefs, or ideals on anyone. I apologize if anything I've said has been taken that way.

I simply felt that this was a comfortable environment where everyone could discuss things in a rational manner--and I'd hoped that I could offer some alternative ways of looking at the situation that might expand others' viewpoints a bit. That's all.

I realize this is a sensitive subject and I obviously haven't done the best job approaching it.

Please accept my humble apologies.

:oops:
I hope what I said didn't make you think I was in any way upset either my friend. This was just all of us expressing our opinion and you, me and Pod are very opinionated LOL! There's nobody upset here. I think the world of you and your sweet and gentle words. You are very kind and and you were simply expressing your opinion. I've been through it too so I completely understand what you're saying and I'm so glad you worked your way through that darkness as Pod has said she has as well.

Hailstones Melt, I completely understand your view as well. You loved your husband and didn't know about the abuse so I can understand your position completely. We each must decide what is right for us. I hold nothing against you and nobody else should either. I'm so glad to hear that you and your daughter are working your way out of that darkness.
 
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Stargazer

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I hope what I said didn't make you think I was in any way upset either my friend. This was just all of us expressing our opinion and you, me and Pod are very opinionated LOL! There's nobody upset here. I think the world of you and your sweet and gentle words. You are very kind and and you were simply expressing your opinion. I've been through it too so I completely understand what you're saying and I'm so glad you worked your way through that darkness as Pod has said she has as well.
Thank you, Vickie! I'm very glad to hear that we're all good. Just one of the pitfalls of having to rely on the written word. Now I have a much better understanding of the reasons why the "higher realms" consider words so limiting. They completely fail to adequately communicate our true feelings.

Unless one happens to be a poet, which I definitely ain't!

:-D
 
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Thank you, Vickie! I'm very glad to hear that we're all good. Just one of the pitfalls of having to rely on the written word. Now I have a much better understanding of the reasons why the "higher realms" consider words so limiting. They completely fail to adequately communicate our true feelings.

Unless one happens to be a poet, which I definitely ain't!

:-D
Words do make expression hard I agree but I disagree that you aren't a poet. Your writing is as beautiful as the finest poem. As I said before, you write in living color.
 
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KarlaSM

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Interesting...I personally never liked his site and I get the same feeling about lots of authors that are well known and followed. However, I do feel the same way like many of you do, that somehow because of the way we live in our world, it is not uncommon to come across very traumatized souls with a dark past. So in a way they try then to help themselves by trying to help others and somehow uncover much of what goes on or simply to try to grasp what is beyond the physical.

Some time ago I came across difficult stuff related to Sai Baba, Oliver Shanti and even Osho himself. You guys can look up and see what you get about these very well known spiritual masters who are said to have had such a transcendental influence and knowledge about spirit. But there is a dark past in each one of them it seems.

But after reading such things, I just came to that same conclusion that it is perhaps precisely because there are very strong polarity laws that govern the physical reality that we experience in this Universe that a very large degree of darkness experienced as material imbalance is compensated by the same degree of light in a spiritual way.

It makes sense doesn't it?

Actually I noticed that in the cases that I mention above, they all have in common precisely the fact that in many ways they brought the spiritual to the material, but they themselves could not achieve an inner balance to merge their inner polarization based on trauma.

Even Buddha himself has some negative parts in his own story, he would not allow women to learn from him at all. Only one time his relative Ananda convinced him to allow a woman.

The very same masters in higher realms have themselves some very black past lives to share if someone is willing to learn from them with an open heart. I was puzzled, but they said to me that it is precisely the way to fulfill archetypal roles in a polarized physical reality (3D) and then from there learn the well known values of mercy, compassion, forgiveness, and infinite love.

;) <3
 

Stargazer

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...
The very same masters in higher realms have themselves some very black past lives to share if someone is willing to learn from them with an open heart. I was puzzled, but they said to me that it is precisely the way to fulfill archetypal roles in a polarized physical reality (3D) and then from there learn the well known values of mercy, compassion, forgiveness, and infinite love.
;) <3
Great points, Karla! I agree!

For me, the fact that they've seen, wrestled with, and overcome their own darkness goes a long way toward qualifying them and validating their message. The very fact that they're truly human, with "faults" and all, helps others not only relate to them, it helps show how anyone can transcend their own limitations.
 
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KarlaSM

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Great points, Karla! I agree!

For me, the fact that they've seen, wrestled with, and overcome their own darkness goes a long way toward qualifying them and validating their message. The very fact that they're truly human, with "faults" and all, helps others not only relate to them, it helps show how anyone can transcend their own limitations.
Very true Stargazer!! :D

Reading further the comments of each one of you I find all feelings and opinions very reasonable, both the ones that promote the higher values and higher perspectives but it is also good to acknowledge hard feelings towards brutal situations.

Forgiveness to me is not really something that we must seek at all costs, but instead something that happens naturally when we embrace our own pain and allow our shadow to express itself with an open heart. There is a child in us all that has suffered and to not be able to forgive is understandable and reasonable when we feel hurt either by our own experiences or by things that we witness that cause for us to feel pain.

Sometimes I think it is unavoidable even to think that Creation is messed up because just look at how animals in 3D are extremely brutal towards each other without any understanding of how much their preys suffer, life in the ocean is horrible and also in the jungles and omg just anywhere...except for the animals that have a different awareness of more harmony. And then well...what humans can do to the environment and to each other can be totally brutal...

But I guess that the miracle that is hard to see is that at some point everything goes back to a harmony and nothing can be destroyed, only damaged temporarily.

Lol well we can say lots of things about these hard topics I guess...

Have a good day or good night my friends and may more peace fill our hearts :p <3
 
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Snowmelt

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Perth, Western Australia
Interesting...I personally never liked his site and I get the same feeling about lots of authors that are well known and followed. However, I do feel the same way like many of you do, that somehow because of the way we live in our world, it is not uncommon to come across very traumatized souls with a dark past. So in a way they try then to help themselves by trying to help others and somehow uncover much of what goes on or simply to try to grasp what is beyond the physical.

Some time ago I came across difficult stuff related to Sai Baba, Oliver Shanti and even Osho himself. You guys can look up and see what you get about these very well known spiritual masters who are said to have had such a transcendental influence and knowledge about spirit. But there is a dark past in each one of them it seems.

But after reading such things, I just came to that same conclusion that it is perhaps precisely because there are very strong polarity laws that govern the physical reality that we experience in this Universe that a very large degree of darkness experienced as material imbalance is compensated by the same degree of light in a spiritual way.

It makes sense doesn't it?

Actually I noticed that in the cases that I mention above, they all have in common precisely the fact that in many ways they brought the spiritual to the material, but they themselves could not achieve an inner balance to merge their inner polarization based on trauma.

Even Buddha himself has some negative parts in his own story, he would not allow women to learn from him at all. Only one time his relative Ananda convinced him to allow a woman.

The very same masters in higher realms have themselves some very black past lives to share if someone is willing to learn from them with an open heart. I was puzzled, but they said to me that it is precisely the way to fulfill archetypal roles in a polarized physical reality (3D) and then from there learn the well known values of mercy, compassion, forgiveness, and infinite love.

;) <3
Karla, I find your insight very deep-hitting and correct. I have been a sannyasin (disciple of Osho) and in my younger days was not ready to accept anyone's view of a darker side. But right now, it feels fitting and appropriate, and just makes me love him more for his humanity.
 
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KarlaSM

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Karla, I find your insight very deep-hitting and correct. I have been a sannyasin (disciple of Osho) and in my younger days was not ready to accept anyone's view of a darker side. But right now, it feels fitting and appropriate, and just makes me love him more for his humanity.
That is very beautiful of your heart dear Hailstones. <3 :)

I love how Osho described us all as drops of water that would go back to the infinite ocean. I find very meaningful the songs that Oliver Shanti composed in spite of horrors he got involved in...there is always this feeling about these people that they truly carry deep wounds in their souls.

Here are some beautiful songs of his:

 
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