The Consensus Between The Higher Self And The Shadow Self (1 Viewer)

[KarlaSM]

Another thing that I think is worth mentioning is that compassion cannot be born if we are not compassionate towards ourselves first. We need to attend to our own needs, to our own healing, to forgive ourselves for our perceived mistakes like Anaeika says, and then the more whole we feel and the safer we feel within ourselves, it might be easier for compassion to be born for others. Maybe sometimes we try too hard to be perfect in the eyes of ourselves or others, but life in itself is, yes, very hard. So to take care of ourselves does not mean to be selfish of course, but the more the love in our hearts grow, then it is easier to show others better paths. Not necessarily that we will convert the worst criminals lol, but you know, little acts can make a difference in our immediate environment, somehow.

 

[Carl]

Krena, I have gone through that line of thinking many times -not a pleasant experience- and came out concluding something similar to your statement: "Otherwise, something is wrong with the original assertion. Likely, the explanation or rationale for Source allowing pain and all varieties of human hurt is more complicated and probably unknowable. The Earth as a challenging school used to be a sufficient explanation for me, but it no longer is enough."

From our limited perspective the constant allowing of pain, suffering, and similar experiences makes me think too that there is something that we are missing or not able comprehend yet. In my humble opinion, a factor that must be included too in that quest is the statement: "As above, so below." Wouldn't that imply that there is confusion and lack of clarity at other higher levels as well? If that is so, this school perhaps is an attempt to solve those issues from the bottom -our 3d plane.

An even scarier line of thought came to me a few times beginning by the knowledge of the "Source" or "God" being alone at some point. Knowing the damage that loneliness can cause in humans, what could loneliness do to a Supreme Being? Perhaps in order to avoid damage it divided in multiple parts (souls), or to learn and get answers to many issues not fully comprehended yet, like compassion as you mention.

 

[Lorna Wilson]

Interesting approach that resonates Stargazer. There is something that puzzles me at times though, "how many times the One Being has to experience something?" Basically for example, pain (in its many forms, physical, emotional, mental or spiritually) has already been experienced so many times per individual ever born in this planet, in this dimension. The same can be said of other experiences like: joy, loss, loneliness, etc. That keeps me wondering many times during my walks.

I don't think it's so much that Creator needs to keep experiencing the same things, but that we are as individual as snowflakes in every way and given the same or similar circumstances we will each respond differently. Then there are souls that are programmed in different ways to aid the collective, so some souls will take on darkness to help others find their light. Unless we carry the energy within us for certain things we cannot resonate with those that we are programmed to help. It's the difference between standing on a mountain top trying to pull others up, and being in the valley with them in their reality so that we can lead them out via the path we have forged through our own experiences.

Dr Modi covers a variety of topics around these issues in her book
Memories of God and Creation: Remembering from the Subconscious Mind

 

[Snowmelt]

I think that incandescent bliss as an ongoing phenomenon may be the closest emotional state to Source. A bliss that does not waver with fluctuations of the field. It's just that we, as a collective, have fallen to a state of separation which gives us a distorted view of what is higher than us.

 

[Stargazer]

• Paraphrasing the question above by Carl: How many times does Source need to experience suffering --for example, children being maimed in the midst of combat -- directly or by proxy to gain knowledge or for entertainment or continuing amusement?

This is the question that can only lead me to conclude that Source has no compassion. Or Source does not comprehend this still. It is not the same as enjoying actors in a drama that we know is make believe.

Would we not expect more from Source?

Otherwise, something is wrong with the original assertion. Likely, the explanation or rationale for Source allowing pain and all varieities of human hurt is more complicated and probably unknowable. The Earth as a challenging school used to be a sufficient explanation for me, but it no longer is enough.

To me, Source is Ultimate Consciousness. It is what I understand to be the highest, most expanded state of consciousness--and, as a conscious, intelligent Being, It sees all and knows all. But my understanding doesn't limit Source to just consciousness or intelligence. I see it as being physical too. It as All That Is. It is ALL things. Energy. Matter. Anti-matter. Universes, galaxies, stars, planets, plants, animals, and even us humans (and extra-terrestrial beings as well). As many Native American tribes do, I believe that all things are alive (even stones, dirt, water, and air)--and filled with the life and awareness of Source (which they refer to as "The Great Spirit").

From this perspective, it seems clear to me that Source is exploring, creating, and experiencing Itself through us (and every other being, element, or entity). This also means (at least to me) that at our highest and most expanded state, we ARE Source.

But let me get back to compassion.

Does a mother feel compassion for a toddler when she allows her to stumble, fall, and hurt her knee as she is learning to walk?
Does a father feel compassion for his teenage son when he allows the son to date a girl when he knows the son is likely to experience the heartbreak of an immature relationship?
Does a parent feel compassion for a child when he or she warns it not to touch a hot stove--and then allows the child to do so in order to learn an important lesson?​

As a parent myself, I would definitely say "yes". The parent understands that the child is learning about life and that they may sometimes experience painful, fearful, or traumatic situations. A wise parent may even allow a child to make missteps, even though they know that knees hurt, hearts break, and fingers will burn--because these are important lessons that help a child learn. Of course parents feel compassion...that is why they're there to love and comfort the youngster when they have those painful experiences.

I see Source as being much the same way. Source knows our true nature as "Self" and that we are eternal, spiritual beings. It knows that the lives we are experiencing are temporary. I feel that Source, just as a wise parent will do, allows us to make our own choices through free will. It allows us to have our own journeys, knowing that nothing is permanent--even though we may perceive it to be from our limited, human understandings and perspectives.

Finally, if we accept the idea that Source IS us, experiencing life THROUGH us, then this means that Source actually SHARES all our experiences with us. Source is therefore with us in every single moment, feeling the same pains, joys, and frustrations we do...and loving us all the while.

And isn't that the very highest example of compassion?

 

[Stargazer]

An even scarier line of thought came to me a few times beginning by the knowledge of the "Source" or "God" being alone at some point. Knowing the damage that loneliness can cause in humans, what could loneliness do to a Supreme Being? Perhaps in order to avoid damage it divided in multiple parts (souls), or to learn and get answers to many issues not fully comprehended yet, like compassion as you mention.

I think this point is very important, Carl. I've often thought about Source/God/Creator being alone at the very beginning. That's why I feel that we are all so appreciated and loved...if it weren't for us (The Creation), We/It would be alone!

I also feel as you do, that perhaps we are here to help bring healing throughout The Creation (and thus to all aspects of Source). As each of us heals and finds peace within ourselves, so too does the entire collective.

Geez...I bet the American Psychiatric Association would have an absolute field day analyzing all of Source's mental health disorders....

 

[Carl]

Furthering your thought a tiny bit Stargazer regarding the Source being alone without us. Therefore the Source needs us, while at the same time we need the Source -symbiotic need. An innocent thought emerges then: is integration really possible? If at some point all integrates back to the source, wouldn't the Source be alone again?

Perhaps there is some validity to the idea that the universe or universes start a new cycle of existence/experience/learning after an integration. We could call it a never ending continuous growth.

 

[Vickie]

My opinion is that Source does not see right and wrong and good and bad. Source does not allow or disallow. Source creates. We are the ones that create good and bad. To say, "why does Source allow bad things to happen?" should be, "why do we allow bad things to happen?".

 

[Krena]

I mostly agree with the definition of Source that Stargazer provided. Or if I dig deeper, I would really like to, indeed prefer to, believe it was entirely true.

Having witnessed the cruelties of cancer and Alzheimer's just to mention two extraordinarily cruel and painful states to experience or observe, I find it hard to fully embrace a Source who needs to learn the nuances of heartache and pain so much, so often, so commonly.

I am taking in and truly absorbing the ideas of all who have contributed, and I read Laron's new article, The Creation of Universes, about Sian Chua's QHHT session in Articles from the Front Page, which provides another take on creation and destruction and its purpose, which others closely express here.

I wish that I felt solace and an answer. I am open to hearing it.

Yet, I am deeply fatigued from seeing the suffering, and even as I only see a tiny portion of this reality of the planet, I know if I could, I would want to change it, heal it, transmute it.

I did not say that Source did not have compassion. I am questioning the very explanation and definition of Source, because I would like to believe Source would be the ultimate progenitor of compassion.

Would you choose to watch a son or daughter suffer so YOU could learn from that experience? Sorry. I don't think so.

This is different than allowing a child to make mistakes so they could learn.

That is why I think the explanations of Source are not quite adequate. That is really my point....

I am not arguing about the existence of Source, nor is this criticism. I am questioning our ability to fully grasp this Energy or Being.

 

[Vickie]

I agree that we can't fully grasp or define Source in our current incarnation because we are emotional beings with amnesia in this life. In my opinion Source is an energy source of creation that is conscious and Source loves and accepts its creation unconditionally.

 

[KarlaSM]

You know what my friends? To be honest with you all, I made a promise to myself a long time ago and I will keep this promise in my heart. That even if 7 billion people believe that Cosmos is evil or that there is no capacity to love or that there can be no love in darkness, I will stick to the knowing in my heart that I have seen love in everything, even in the darkest corners, even if all looks chaotic. It does not matter. I see beauty in Cosmos, in Source, I see value in everything, even if people could not believe in this.

May you all find peace in your hearts my dears.

 

[Snowmelt]

In a sense, the Beings of creation experience coherence and incoherence, as their matter both gels together in creation, and disintegrates in cycles of change, but Source is beyond both those states.

 

[Stargazer]

Furthering your thought a tiny bit Stargazer regarding the Source being alone without us. Therefore the Source needs us, while at the same time we need the Source -symbiotic need. An innocent thought emerges then: is integration really possible? If at some point all integrates back to the source, wouldn't the Source be alone again?

Perhaps there is some validity to the idea that the universe or universes start a new cycle of existence/experience/learning after an integration. We could call it a never ending continuous growth.

Exactly...and I do think integration is possible. At the end of some massive Cosmic cycle, much like an old human being who has lived long and well, perhaps all aspects of Source eventually find peace with Themselves. With many, many memories and infinite love for Itself and all Its aspects, just as we go through physical "death", perhaps even Source moves through something similar to create yet another experience for Itself...

I am not arguing about the existence of Source, nor is this criticism. I am questioning our ability to fully grasp this Energy or Being.

I understand Krena. I'm weary of seeing the suffering and pain of Other Selves as well. Just as Vickie mentioned, I think it's exceedingly difficult for us to come to any kind of understanding about Source or the true nature of Life from our extremely limited human perspective.
I feel certain that at some point (and it may certainly be many, many lives from now) we'll finally have a more complete understanding of things. In the meantime though, I guess all we can do is question our existence, make what sense of it we can, and do our very best under the circumstances.

Oh...and love one another and try to have a few laughs in spite of ourselves.



BTW, I LOVE having these deep conversations with y'all. It always feels like I'm giving my psyche a good, satisfying stretch!!

 

[Anaeika]

Ya'll need to read Laron's latest QHHT post, if you haven't already. It dives right in and discusses the paradox of free will.

What's also interesting is that it suggests God/Source isn't all-knowing, but is learning w each cycle.

In Ervin Laszlo's book, Science & The Akashic Field, he discusses how after every galaxy dies, another smarter one is created in its place having learned from its predecessor. The memory is stored in The Akashic Field. Now, according to the QHHT session, we are in cycle 7.

 

[Carl]

Not sure is this is the right forum/thread to put what I did run into a few minutes ago, but since Pizzagate was mentioned above I'll put it here (even though I felt tempted first to put it the threads where we discuss Clif's summaries since it would fall, if true, under the "disclosures" rocking our world/reality because it would be very difficult to process by people.)

It may be "false news" - but the heading is: "FBI Insider: Pizzagate Pedophile Ring Arrests Are Now Imminent; 30 politicians & 40 0thers in DC, VA & NYC to be arrested"

Here is the link for the article: http://www.neonnettle.com/news/1873-fbi-insider-pizzagate-pedophile-ring-arrests-are-now-imminent

 

[Lorna Wilson]

My opinion is that Source does not see right and wrong and good and bad. Source does not allow or disallow. Source creates. We are the ones that create good and bad. To say, "why does Source allow bad things to happen?" should be, "why do we allow bad things to happen?".

I agree, but my thinking is 'what do we learn or gain from things we label as bad'. 'Bad' things create an unpleasant feeling or is something we want to reject or push away, while what we label as 'good' is something that we embrace or pull towards us.

It reminds me of love that embraces or fear that rejects. Perhaps what we label as 'bad' touches on issues of fear or discomfort and allows us to help the shadows or discover the light hidden behind things that are dense or opaque. Just like we reach for higher refined energies we in turn must allow the shadow side to be pulled up by us. After all, everything is connected.

 

[Lorna Wilson]

You know what my friends? To be honest with you all, I made a promise to myself a long time ago and I will keep this promise in my heart. That even if 7 billion people believe that Cosmos is evil or that there is no capacity to love or that there can be no love in darkness, I will stick to the knowing in my heart that I have seen love in everything, even in the darkest corners, even if all looks chaotic. It does not matter. I see beauty in Cosmos, in Source, I see value in everything, even if people could not believe in this.

I LOVE this. I too see that it is all love no matter how it looks to human eyes or perception. I haven't made any promises but I find a tenderness for all feelings no matter how uncomfortable they may make us. I see that soul essence can create a vast diversity of unpleasant experiences just like it can create an array of beauty. All is Creators expression and without accepting our diversity and range of potential in every direction then what we judge in anyway just sets a flow of motion that we will then have to experience to ultimately discover the light in ALL of creation.

 

[Out of Time]

Another thing that I think is worth mentioning is that compassion cannot be born if we are not compassionate towards ourselves first. We need to attend to our own needs, to our own healing, to forgive ourselves for our perceived mistakes like Anaeika says, and then the more whole we feel and the safer we feel within ourselves, it might be easier for compassion to be born for others. Maybe sometimes we try too hard to be perfect in the eyes of ourselves or others, but life in itself is, yes, very hard. So to take care of ourselves does not mean to be selfish of course, but the more the love in our hearts grow, then it is easier to show others better paths. Not necessarily that we will convert the worst criminals lol, but you know, little acts can make a difference in our immediate environment, somehow.

There is another tool I used once. If you feel guilt, just imagine that somebody who you love and respect very much did the same? Would you think less of them? If the answer is no, then the next logical question would be why you would treat yourself worse than that one.

I struggled a long time with my concept about Source. The main problem is that I started with the presumption of an almighty entity actively ruling our lives, which is a legacy from the religious believes I've had for a long time. But, it seems it is not the case, Source indeed is love and light, but is much more passive that most would want to. The positive ones connect to it by acts of loving and discover more of it this way. The negatives do so by causing separation from it. This is a simplification since there are many shades of grey. For example, if you kill monsters threatening to eat your relatives, are your actions inspired by the love for them or the hatred for what they would do? Maybe both?

So, Source is good and very pleasant to connect to. Some go as far as to say that love is all there is and everything else is just an illusion (which unfortunately can be very persuasive in the reality we live in).

 

[Lorna Wilson]

So, Source is good and very pleasant to connect to. Some go as far as to say that love is all there is and everything else is just an illusion (which unfortunately can be very persuasive in the reality we live in).

With lost souls we direct them to look within for their own light and immediately on seeing this they are transformed by the love that is there. It is the same light that NDE's speak of when they die temporarily. My gut feeling is that Creator IS this light that is pure love. However there is also many other expressions of Creator that encompasses every positive and negative experience, the good the bad and the ugly.

When we feel disconnected from this/our light we often forget that it exists within us, and the journey away from our light and the return to it might be what it's all about. I think that karma is the energy we project outward into experiences which is returned back to us when it has completed it's outward flow, and like the infinity figure 8 we stand at the center point. Or at least our light does. That light within is our Creator essence that manifests our mind, intention or will and we are given the allowance to do so. However in this reality we are conditioned to not believe in our own empowerment, possibly because this is a duality system.

Some of the early work that is asked of us of the higher soul planes/dimensions when we do inner explorations or OBE'S is what is called rescue work as we are close enough to the astral dimensions were some soul aspects or fragmented sub personalities get stuck having believed that they are lost or disconnected through their life experiences. We judge our experiences and self sometimes very harshly. Also belief systems and dogma may enforce these notions. Some people believe there is nothing after death and find themselves in a place of 'nothingness' or 'purgatory' and every other possible belief of separation. Our higher self or soul will not over ride the physical persons free will and may stand aside waiting to be invited in, the very same way Creator waits for us to invite It in to our experiences. The soul rescue work is what the Monroe Lifeline program was created to do. Sometimes we feel so bad about things we do and this causes separation. The light though has no judgement about Its experiences and does love us unconditionally. I think that is what might be difficult for us to learn or accept.

 

[Vickie]

I mostly agree with the definition of Source that Stargazer provided. Or if I dig deeper, I would really like to, indeed prefer to, believe it was entirely true.

Having witnessed the cruelties of cancer and Alzheimer's just to mention two extraordinarily cruel and painful states to experience or observe, I find it hard to fully embrace a Source who needs to learn the nuances of heartache and pain so much, so often, so commonly.

I am taking in and truly absorbing the ideas of all who have contributed, and I read Laron's new article, The Creation of Universes, about Sian Chua's QHHT session in Articles from the Front Page, which provides another take on creation and destruction and its purpose, which others closely express here.

I wish that I felt solace and an answer. I am open to hearing it.

Yet, I am deeply fatigued from seeing the suffering, and even as I only see a tiny portion of this reality of the planet, I know if I could, I would want to change it, heal it, transmute it.

I did not say that Source did not have compassion. I am questioning the very explanation and definition of Source, because I would like to believe Source would be the ultimate progenitor of compassion.

Would you choose to watch a son or daughter suffer so YOU could learn from that experience? Sorry. I don't think so.

This is different than allowing a child to make mistakes so they could learn.

That is why I think the explanations of Source are not quite adequate. That is really my point....

I am not arguing about the existence of Source, nor is this criticism. I am questioning our ability to fully grasp this Energy or Being.

Krena and all, I read an excellent article about a woman that had an incredible NDE. She didn't go through a tunnel and all that you normally hear about. She appeared before a gathering of beings and learned so much about the purpose of our physical lives, karma, suffering, evil and good and more. She wrote a book about it all but the article talks about a lot of what we discussed here. I think you would really take comfort from it.

https://thesearchforlifeafterdeath.com/2016/08/28/the-implications-of-natalie-sudmans-unusual-near-death-experience-in-iraq/

 

[Anaeika]

https://thesearchforlifeafterdeath.com/2016/08/28/the-implications-of-natalie-sudmans-unusual-near-death-experience-in-iraq/[/QUOTE]

This part was so good that I need to share it:

"The Problem of Evil” is something that both philosophy and religion have long struggled with and yet Natalie makes the distinction that rules for behavior to ensure collective harmony is only really valid from our physical perspective and therefore applicable only while we reside in it. As she states, “From my experiences in expanded awareness, it appears to me that no being is considered evil or bad. Actions of a being may be understood to be disruptive, inharmonious, or detrimental to the creative flow within any one reality, but the creativity of an action could be understood as valid – perhaps even necessary or useful – regardless of the overall disruption. Actions of a being may be understood as likely to look disruptive or evil from within a physical perspective while being considered beautiful, necessary or valuable creative action from the perspective of expanded awareness and thus good in every way."

It continues under The Concept of Good & Evil.

 

[Vickie]

I felt the same Anaeika. This part is so good and really the whole article is very good. I'm thinking of getting her book.

 

[Anaeika]

I want to read it too.

 

[Golmona]

Thank you all for this great discussion. Lorna Wilson KarlaSM Stargazer I especially appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. Your understandings and experiences are invaluable.

When I take a step back and look at it with a sense of detachment it's easy for me to grasp the truth in all of this. However, I do question if I'll be able to maintain that sense of detachment if something "evil" should happen to someone close to me. In that, I commend Hailstones Melt. Thank you for sharing your story with us HM.

 

[KarlaSM]

Golmona that would be a difficult situation and I can say from my own experience, and I am not kidding, that I have personally been abused by extremely evil people, at least one relative did so much harm to me that a lot of the lung cancer that I have is related to that situation. However, since last year I have been working more consciously on releasing all these negative experiences since childhood and it is very hard, extremely sober when one opens up to the feelings and the traumas in itself. This morning, working further in this particular case, I was able to truly feel hate that was the result of such extreme fragmentation when I was very young, and then came flushing of energies in the areas of cancer. What does help most definitely is to know that this evil person was very abused and is not the kind of person who ever asked for help to deal with all the trauma. This person destroyed the lives of many people not just my own life and lives a "happy" life, at least apparently because obviously this person is not well at all, and old enough to not change anymore. But at least with my own healing I can set this person free and myself free and recover my health more and more each day. Knowing that deep within this individual there is light and all energy can be transformed back to love, and I hope one day in the next incarnation of this person that such healing takes place, along with the others affected.

In the end all is illusion because every being can go back to higher consciousness, we just do not see it in our present incarnation but energy is eternal and all is evolution.

When spirituality cannot provide answers to me, I approach science and nature, evolution of species has a lot to tell about how our brains evolve and how nature in itself evolves and how over millennia humanity grows, stepping out of dark brutal ages in which decisions were taken out of impulse to an age in which more and more people choose to come out of impulse act from a place of reason and higher values.

 

[Lorna Wilson]

Golmona that would be a difficult situation and I can say from my own experience, and I am not kidding, that I have personally been abused by extremely evil people, at least one relative did so much harm to me that a lot of the lung cancer that I have is related to that situation. However, since last year I have been working more consciously on releasing all these negative experiences since childhood and it is very hard, extremely sober when one opens up to the feelings and the traumas in itself.

Have you ever worked with someone who does either soul retrievals or works with integrating sub personalities? I'm sure you find a huge amount of healing, peace and resolutions from trauma and be able to reintegrate those parts of yourself that is holding onto the trauma.

 

[KarlaSM]

Have you ever worked with someone who does either soul retrievals or works with integrating sub personalities? I'm sure you find a huge amount of healing, peace and resolutions from trauma and be able to reintegrate those parts of yourself that is holding onto the trauma.

Soul retrieval is the kind of healing work that I do for myself. I developed my own methods with the help of my guides. I do this frequently and the more I do this, the more I get to meet aspects of my personal universe. It is interesting because for each trauma from this lifetime that is worked out, the more these aspects from other timelines/lifetimes are also healed since there is some common ground in our experiences.

 

[Carl]

KarlaSM, a quick question based on your statement: "It is interesting because for each trauma from this lifetime that is worked out, the more these aspects from other timelines/lifetimes are also healed since there is some common ground in our experiences." If I interpret you statement correctly and there is common ground in the experiences, perhaps there is an origin somewhere, the one that started the trauma. Have you ever run into such original trauma that is at the center of the problem?

 

[KarlaSM]

KarlaSM, a quick question based on your statement: "It is interesting because for each trauma from this lifetime that is worked out, the more these aspects from other timelines/lifetimes are also healed since there is some common ground in our experiences." If I interpret you statement correctly and there is common ground in the experiences, perhaps there is an origin somewhere, the one that started the trauma. Have you ever run into such original trauma that is at the center of the problem?

Dear Carl, in a way yes, I have come across the original trauma, somehow, but in reality it is like a Gaussian curve or like an onion that started as a decision or decisions with a small group of people a very long time ago who knows when. I met in this lifetime online only some of the players and the consequences were very evident: impossibility to talk honestly about the issue because of lack of awareness of the depth of the trauma and inability to negotiate from all parties. It was too painful and disappointing, no matter how I tried to approach these people, they were simply not willing to talk, but it was meant to be like that it seems. The other players it was not even possible to meet them because it would have been too harmful. So all this work is now done in the spirit realms.

However, the main connections or players are my guides, some of them being the ones I have not met. So what this means is that aspects of these individuals have been guiding me over the years to do this tremendous healing work, while just like myself they have a physical body somewhere incarnated. Very likely they are not fully aware of the magnitude of the original wound. The movie Interstellar portrays well this apparent paradox of timelines and "contact".

So what happens is that for example members of my family and other unrelated individuals are like mirrors that show to me how the original conflict was played with those people who lifetimes ago were my original biological family and soul family. By healing traumas of things that happened in this lifetime then I have more and more access to the original traumas with such soul family.

The healing has to be gradual, and astrology has been very useful to understand and a recent reading that I asked from a friend last year. The whole situation is very Plutonic/Scorpionic in itself which demands to dig deeper and deeper and connect incidents gradually.

This therapy then includes for the most part energy work/conscious soul retrieval/psychotherapy with these soulmates in spirit form, just like how you speak to a counselor on a constant basis it is no different with them in spirit realms. It is like a dynamic of asking questions, creating a connection of trust and seeing more and more in which way we all contributed to this wound, etc.

So far two people who speak of this kind of problem of having had a different family in ancient times in much conflict are Kryon and Jelaila Starr. This would not be the case for everyone but there are some cases that one can see similar to my own in other forums.

 

[Carl]

Excellent! Thank you Karla. Remember too that many times at the center of Plutonic/Scorpionic issues many times the core is the gain/loss of "power." (I'm a practitioner of the art of astrology for more than 40 years -and as a friend told me once: "what in the hell is an engineer doing studying astrology?"